judging by the scores in doubles, i'd say so. a 44, 45, 46, 47, 48...and on and on? that's a 17 under there that 44. on friday night josh and i missed 3 for a 46. nothing like that is done at the mountain, so...?

I'm pretty sure that -15 or -16 was shot in random draw doubles at South Mountain back in the 2000-2001 timeframe. That's a 38 or 39, which is lower than a 44. In doubles action and when there are Gold rated players competing at Little Lehigh Parkway, I think some of the pro par four holes are more 'tweeners' and it's tough to call a score of 3 a birdie on them. Hole#1, 4 long, and 15 stay legitimate imo, but hole #6, 8, 11 and 12 (especially because the polehole was reportedly never moved to the long pin position on 12) fall in that gray zone and may just be tough par 3s.

That's just like my opinion, man.

Man is that Freedom Rock?!?!?

Easier for you guys that can throw 350'-450' drives! Any of us guys that are below that are going to have a very hard time getting under 50. I shot a 52 with Matt on friday night and felt darn proud of our score. This is one of the reasons I didn't attend this weekend.

ahh, the old "what is par" discussion. can there be holes that produce no birdies ever? dropping 6, 8, 11 and 12 all to par 3 would drop that 17 under to a 13 under and make the course SEEM tougher, but not change anything.

i think a better solution would be to make them actually tougher, and i'm not really sure any of those holes needs to be tougher.

i think all the par 4s are legitimate, obviously some easier than others. i think the par 3s are way too easy. except for 17 of course.